Allisons Assisted Suicide Case Study

Wednesday, April 6, 2022 8:32:37 AM

Allisons Assisted Suicide Case Study



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New law on medically assisted death passes

Still, we share certain skillsets, something I have deeply mixed feelings about. Oh, my family. I mostly have been up for talking to them if I had time, on the grounds that if they were coming to a zendo, wanting to talk about religion then they clearly really wanted to hear what I had to say. But I have less time at the moment, and the last couple of groups have kind of lost their shit and gotten much more verbally aggressive. Especially since coming to the zendo at all is more than a little dubious, really. AFAIK they can only be rescued while young and isolated from the pack, by a careful introduction to classic science fiction.

Let me restate that. They came to a Buddhist meditation hall where I happen to live and asked about an end to suffering. How could I possibly resist? Shouting taunts over their shoulders as their beat a retreat is just poor sportsmanship. I also suspect that what Max would consider a compelling argument, Allison would consider cruelty or emotional abuse. Her silence. So she balked while semi-conscious of it. I mean, I totally understand why Alison flipped out and told Max he was a spoiled brat — but damn, that is not how you convince anyone to do anything. Considering how willing Max was to talk about his life, though… well, it seems like a missed opportunity. It may or may not have changed the perception of him as an asshole — but it might have changed the outcome, which is really good enough for me.

Turning this over in my mind. My knee-jerk response is to disagree or to say, maybe in this comic but often not in real life but that may well just be defensiveness? My feeling atm is that people like Max feel so entitled to getting everything for nothing that there is no possibility of rapport building without ceding that. His pity party was annoying as fuck… but he was, for whatever reason, opening up, and willingly handing over information. Alison did herself no favors by table flipping on him if negotiation was something she valued at all.

BTW, just to be clear, when I talk about negotiation, I am not necessarily talking about being nice. When I was a woman in tech, I usually found it to my advantage if people were just a little bit afraid of me, so that when I was nice — which, honestly, I generally preferred — everyone appreciated it and was grateful rather than seeing it as a sign of weakness they could take advantage of. And the Alison who pretty much ignored and steamrolled over Mary. Yeah, and focusing back on Al, she seems to only have two tools in her kit at this point: earnest explanation based on what she sees as good faith which means, on her terms and table flipping. And I agree that Alison did not have the skill set. Losing continuity with my research group is going to hurt. Totally agree, insofar as I have the knowledge!

Honestly, teaching students to work creatively in a lab setting is pretty much the most fun I have. I think I am assuming here that learning is easy, but the willingness to act, and take chances, is fairly rare. The latter is, from my experience, sadly true. Or, at least, there are categories of chances that the people who would be most able to take advantage of them seldom take. And often, it seems, instead whine to me about. I tend to like immersive seat of the pants learning. My lost response mostly came down to me questioning a lot of my assumptions.

There are some oddf things about how I process information, that are innate or close enough to it. This is a really involved digression, and probably more than I want to put on a public forum. In my head — this is what comes of doing a lot of interesting stuff, more or less successfully, when young. I see a version of this with my research students. The broader experience they have, the more they can handle without freaking out. I mean, a lot of people revert to script under stress. This is totally a thing. Odd weekend — ended up being more involved in getting a funding proposal out for a research student who is in theory transitioning to a new mentor… but that mentor is a lot junior, so while I thought my role was just going to be in experiment design, and J would handle most of the coaching with writing… yeah, not so much.

OMG, guys, you can not say a slugmouth is a model system for a human tongue! Then again, pretty much no one else pulls that off, so maybe the issue was my expectations. Yeah and I ended up arguing both sides too because the whole range of options is plausible, I think. Cause Al is definitely better than a lot of people at handling new experiences, but, not all new experiences. Which is what makes her so interesting that we write thousands of words of meta…. I think it may be that your expectations are reasonable but the state of academic writing is appalling.

But nope, at least not in my department. Possibly because most tenured faculty are kinda flailing in a hopeful manner over grants too? What kinda grant involves both experimental bio and English btw? Or did the PI change fields? Well, he really is that junior. Our lab is kind of special. Our PI changed fields. He hated undergraduate science, so he skipped much of it.

I have an, ahem, unusual background, with my undergrad work in Chinese, poli-econ, and NE lang and civ — a lot of which was very writing heavy. And then software, and program management. Oh, and three years in there in which I was a staff writer for a local journal for fun food and related topics, mostly, parly overlapping with my MS years. Our PI is known for being an absolute stickler for writing, and getting drafts through him is difficult, and revising with him can be, ah, uncomfortable. A former colleague called it going to the torture chamber. So I try to get things through him without revision, just for fun, and I try to prepare my students well enough that they get through him without revision for their own sanity.

One of my joys is watching students learn to make their writing more clear and concise. The design of experiments, and apparatus, and everything that goes into that, is even more fun. Or out of modeling clay and legos…. This is the last summer funding proposal a student of mine will be submitting in this lab. None of my students have not been funded. And I suspect that dealing with petulant undergraduate superbeing might indeed be a nice little retirement gig for Gurwara. SSC talked about an experiment where you showed a child Alice a bag of skittles, the showed them that the bag was full of pennies.

I have to agree. People with the same values frequently take a different course of action, because they expect different outcomes. I like to try and see other perspectives. I wonder why they believe that. Well, for the healthcare thing, I was just giving a general example of non-evil different opinion. I actually know nothing of American healthcare. Bears mentioning that the US is far more Religious than the rest of the western world and deep runs the belief that suffering can be a gift from god if you really have the the strength to embrace it.

There are people who see healthcare as a deliberate attempt to cultivate exploitable human weakness and that better for a sick person to die than for them to become a willing slave of a truly biblical evil. And never underestimate spite. You decide if their intentions are worth your life or mine. My family is Jewish and all 8 of my great-grandparents died in concentration camps. Arrogant on my part, for sure. My grandparents emigrated after WW1 from Poland, so they missed the purges and mass murders.

This is my actual name; I sign in using Facebook. Thought it would make for an interesting personal experiment if I had to measure my contributions by the possibility of being recognized IRL for them. So, social filter fail. They tolerate my skepticism, I keep my peace around them. And that is a truly frightening idea for people to believe: medicare as a vector for the Devil. I feel for you, Mr. Nazi Tattoos and Mrs. My parents voted for Trump. They hated him, but they honestly believe that he was the better choice. To my father, he sees a lot of the liberal policies as unnecessary interference.

He works as a manager and has been screwed over by Unions, government policies designed to promote lifestyles he disagrees with, and he hates corruption. Is he wrong? In my opinion, yes he is. I get it, I really do. But I went and looked and made peace with it. So yeah, Special Snowflakes are stupid. PC culture turned out to be a really easy way to obscure or make taboo topics that deserve honest, ethical investigation. Much the same goes for the railing about being politically correct. Apparently asking people to be polite is grossly offensive — who knew?! I would definitely agree with this, especially the second part. In addition, as someone with ADD as opposed to ADHD and severe dysgraphia, I know that people who are trying to be supportive allies often end up making mistakes.

To me that encapsulates a lot of the problem. Safe Spaces as refuge from hostility and danger sounds crucial. But Safe Spaces as refuge from controversy or challenging information is equal parts pathetic and a disservice to the intended community. Same with PC culture. Expanding the definition of polite is no kind of radical, wrenching social change. But wanting too much too fast opens a cause up to being scapegoated. And what happened was the protection of vulnerable people from real threats got equated with needing to stigmatize the controversial. And I do mean that literally. I saw him coming, let him make first contact, then belted him with a crutch, he backed off.

But a decade and a half on, the fact that he singled me out for a physical assault because I was disabled, that still disturbs me. Example 2 Someone anonymously claimed I was engaged in disability benefit fraud. And it happens far more often. Been there, done that, live with the condequences. Because of the ridiculous propaganda machine of the Republicans. You know what losing your job can do in a late-stage capitalist society? It can get you killed. Slowly and painfully. Dealt with unemployment both for myself and with family members. Debt problems, shrinking job markets, high health care costs — it all sucks.

Trump actually came to my town. Had a rally here, had thousands cheering as he gleefully described violating the first amendment. I can hardly look people in the eyes any more when I walk down the street. Yyyyyes, that was the moral of this page. The ones who are worthy of contempt are those who look deeper, who do understand that taking away healthcare will kill, who know that climate change is happening, and are willing to set those all aside and swear black is white and up is down in pursuit of profit. But most of all, the people to despise are those who play to the worst prejudices of the crowd for their own advancement.

Again, I stand in awe of your candor. Your point here is tough to hear but most likely needs to be well taken. Environment may not justify behavior but it surely doe influence it. What we know influences what we can properly consider. One of the best things about being in my forties is getting to be Give No Fucks Tylikcat. Mostly, though, I find discussing a lot of this kind of ethical decision in purely abstract terms kind of boring past a certain point. I mean, you talk to any group of people, and the vast majority of them insist that they would be among the few that resisted the Nazis.

Far more interesting to discuss ethical problems that people have actually encountered and how they actually went down, at least as a jumping off point. It is possible, having lived a fairly colorful life, that I have more reference points. I never know how those comparisons actually work out. Mind you, belatedly being — oh, yeah! And I had a sister who died from want of a liver transplant! And most totally true things I could say in my defense also kind of make it worse. That she gave up on him.

As per the page above, but also from previous discussions. Resorting to force because the emotional cost of making a persuasive argument which is at least getting to know Max is too high? I mean, he did start explaining a bunch of stuff, which is kind of surprising, all things considered. And then Alison freaked out at him. What happened sucked. Maybe Max would still have freely chosen not to have participated, but… that was just a lousy interaction.

And there is a difference between a persuasive argument and some kind of non-physical manipulation. That was poorly handled — what a problematic outcome but what amazing art! Gurwara showed Alison that she was brute-forcing her way through life rather than working out the optimum solutions for the people around her, and the Max thing came up after Gurwara had broken her, but before he could put her back together again. I have people tell me the same thing from time to time. My current occupation is taking care of my mother, who has dementia to the point that she requires 24 hour care thankfully, she can still feed herself and is capable of most aspects of personal care, and her saving and wise investments left her financially set to allow us [my older sister and I] to do this.

We do what we must sometimes and bear those things we must bear. Eternal grant us strength to carry our load. I kind of live in fear of eldercare. Trying to make sure things are handled appropriately without allowing our mother to be abusive and awful is going to be difficult at least half of my involvement is going to be as an emotional buffer for my sister, I can almost guarantee.

Sometimes the established habits of interaction make a hard job into an excruciating one. Sometimes we rise. Mom was the primary caretaker of her mother. It was like this with my grandmother too. My mom has four older brothers, all of whom have multiple adult children. Her only daughter, of course. Absolutely, but most of us are glad if the chance to show that love passes us by. No resentment from any of us on his situation.

Pretty much everything has worked out as best as it possibly could have, given the foundational situation of the dementia. Even so, I totally get your angle — in all the possible ways it can be read. There comes a point for most people when you have more information than you were raised with and can begin making meaningful decisions about how you comport yourself in the world with that new information.

Cleaver was raised by monsters who hurt him and cast him out, then became one when his mother responded to his appearance with a shotgun. He never had any life experiences outside of being a killer until he met Patrick and Patrick cultivated that violent streak. Alison at the end has treated him with kindness, honesty and forgiveness and he has responded in kind because now he has some perspective. Max has not lived in this bubble. Yes, his parents have probably screwed the pooch by just giving him everything he wants and sheltering him but he still has access to outside information.

He has chosen instead to assume everyone else is either a liar or a fool and his answers are correct forever. He has chosen not to grow as a person. My brother and I have had, ahem, significantly different outcomes. We came from the same family. Whereas my brother has maintained his position in the increasingly affluent family, was supported through his film degree at a private university, in the bosom of the family, etc. Who has which bubble? One of us is an alt-right troll living in a basement, making death threats against women, and posting hate videos on YouTube. One of us is a biomedical researcher and martial arts instructor. And that is, at least partly, my field. So one person came out of unfortunate circumstances and became a decent person, and one had all the advantages and is still a jackass?

How is that all that different from what has happened here? Aside from all the killing that is. Anatomy and physiology on the academic side, with neurobiology and computational neuroscience thrown in when I can. I meant the martial art, but I am far less familiar with the Chinese styles than the Japanese and Okinawan styles and even that is only passingly from years in my youth I had a Sensei, not Shifu. If you can teach it, then I tip my hat you. One of my biggest regrets from a misspent youth is not sticking with it.

I actually met my Shaolin master around the same time, kind of in passing, about two weeks before he stopped teaching for ten years or so. One of those weird might-have-beens we both laugh about now. I learned two important things there:. A heel just below the sternum a dozen times or so takes the wind out of you. Seriously, I just wanted to run. There is something to be said for just letting the lesson proceed- I have a number of anomalous responses to pressure points, and soke has found nearly all of them over the years… but insisting that he hit each of my individual points precisely as opposed to demonstrating how they work in general and they do work in general- I have practical experience is kind of a dickish move.

He was at the time one of the seniors who had learned under Grandmaster Siringano who I have since learned would be called Soke. You keep giving these random little bits and pieces whenever they become relevant. Just publish an autobiography so we can finally know all of these insane things you keep mentioning you were in university as a young teen? You do neuroscience research? I moved out here for research. One thing led to another, and when they bought a building a year later, they asked us to be the residents. And then we later ended up buying part of it. It was special. I was totally unaware of the program being competitive — as far as I know, it was like getting into Hogwartz.

He also failed to mention the suicide attempts, but, well, perhaps he was motivated to. I really have trouble imagining my life as the subject for a book. And… OMG, multiple familial shitstorms. I could use a pseudonym! That would be awfully passive-aggressive of me. I mean all the other stuff, sure — who is served by shame? But poetry? Added to which, quite a lot of Real Life TM is stranger than you could justify putting into a book, but some of us seem to be positive attractors for that kind of thing. Strongly considered majoring philosophy in college, and am being reminded here that one of several reasons why, was a good moral philosophy class I took during my first year there, with an excellent not-exactly-TA and at least ok professor in addition to very good excerpted readings.

Reason is not an infallible tool. Most people are resistant to it and many are outright immune, refusing to act contrary to their beliefs by anything short of plausible threats. Fascists, for example, which is why so many people were happy to see Richard Spencer getting punched. It made him afraid to be his hateful self in public spaces. Her arguments failing to convince Max was not a failure on her part to give the perfect reason but a failure of reason to be the tool that could move him. There are a lot of ways she could have convinced Max to help her without strong-arming him. Asking him to think the proposition over before refusing. Telling him she would owe him a favor.

I include myself and every friend I have among those who are resistant to reason to some extent. There is no possible reason you could have to disagree with me. Now I beg you, help me before I lose my patience and crash you head into this table. I mean, sure, Max should probably have sucked it up and helped her anyway. That would have been trying to understand his perspective, his values, and arguing that helping her would be aligned with his values.

This is something I recognise. There was a chance they might have talked him around. He recalled a time he was working as a teacher, and he realized that two of his students were acting in the same way. One of them, he knew had a hard time at home, so he forgave the behavior. The other he got angry at. Max never fought a super-villain, nor became one. Meaning their understanding are very different. In Daniel she sees the violent killer she fights daily not to become. She gets his struggle on a fundamental level, as she has described here.

I wonder if in Max she sees the life she could have had if she had chosen the selfish path. Certainly she would still have certain benefits to being an indestructible super strong flying brick but she could have developed real friendships instead of the hangers-on she ended up with. She could have her research papers graded based on their content and not on how many buildings she knocked over in high school.

But along comes Max living that life part of her always wanted and she hates him for it. Gurwara is the kind of guy that would look at a mathematical equation and denounce it as a social construct. I have had perfectly rational, reasonable conversations with people who are almost my ideological diametric opposite I am moderate left liberal progressive , while having thrown down SCREAMING matches with people only slightly further to the left than I am. Alison did reach out to Max, who not only rejected her requests logically, but emphatically stated he would reject anything she proposed simply to spite her. After that, he wanted nothing to do with her.

I think there is a lot of baggage in the story that goes beyond the words each character say. I think the fundamental problem was that Allison and Max had wildly different expectations and mindsets. Alison asked Max to share his story so she could try to understand him, true. Are we all just ignoring that this guy is clearly Patrick from the future having traveled back in time to kill all those other infant heroes just so Alison could be the one to change the world and now, after all those years of biding his time, is her college professor and trying to mentally coerce her into a drastic mind frame necessary for her to achieve that goal?

Max meanwhile just represents the people who have looked down on me my whole life ,and who I spend every day wishing a horrible death on. Humanity has direct and far too often repeated experience with the alternatives to those things. Like the Dark Ages. Or Somalia. Or the Khmer Rouge. Millionaires are able to become Billionaires, etc. The connection that Alison and Cleaver have formed is only possible because Alison beat the crap out of him and put him in literal chains and then talked to him afterwards. Show Comments bta. Let us bask in the brilliance of that thematic closure.

I cringed so hard, I gave myself whiplash. She was cut to the heart. He gave loving… a bad name. Shweta Narayan. Actually not sorry. Timothy McLean. And the murder. Dont forget the murder. Elaine Lee. Max is someone who refuses to face up to the effects his motives have on others. Darkoneko Hellsing. This other person.. For now, anyway. Arkone Axon. The point others are making is that the deterrence comes from certitude, not severity. David Gillon. OTOH, Patrick. Patrick gives me the willies. How so? Giacomo Bandini. All we can do is make our best guess and hope. I would probably go the assisted suicide route if I were in his shoes, to be honest. Ah, the indomitable allure of fascism.

Not just you. Is punishment equated with justice, in your mind? That… would be kind of horrifying. Say no more. Micah Matheson. Are you honestly calling Max a murderer? Max was not motivated by fear. His motivation was his deep insecurity and self hatred. Where do you think these come from. From his parents, of course. Dave Noonan. Philip Bourque. Blaming mothers, especially strong mothers, is so fashionable. Point to: Mary. Her power is kinda cool. Marc Forrester. And yeah, Alison told her this was not the way. Which is telling. The only way you could surprise me is if you came to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, Max deserves the same consideration as these others: Mayhem: the guy who wanted to overthrow the existing social order with all its countless injustices and inequalities i.

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If you fall behind and might even be compared on a mat. It is commonly encountered by someone much se nior. The man, who had helped so many, now could not help himself. One morning Eric, the super athlete, who was now only 43, began to have trouble breathing. A little girl, who had come to visit, ran to get help. Because such a high standard of perfection is impossible for most women, failure is almost inevitable. When women constantly fail in their attempts to meet this standard, negative consequences follow. The number of girls with eating disorrders is estimated to several milion. The physical problems associated with dieting include malnutrition, destruction of tooth enamel, organ failure and death. Slow walkers are a problem in society today.

You know, the people who act like they have legs the length of one foot and can only take a step every three seconds. They are the reason that many people are late to class. These slow walkers simply do not know how to walk by moving one foot in front of the other. They cause traffic in the hallways and back everything up to the point where you cannot even walk out of the door. She stated that she was aware that her grandmother was old and was not going to be around much longer but, was worried that maybe something that she did could cause her to get sicker.

Lady Macbeth stated the she woke up 6 a. This can be intensified by depression, inadequate nutrition and dehydration. The memory deficit may progress rapidly, steadily, or stay the same. IN no time she was bed ridden and required help even to fulfill her basic. She was told she would not achieve more than a third grade education and would not develop much verbal speech because she suffered major hearing loss Bates.

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